B2C CSMs do it better | TDSU Ep. 38

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I mean, the B's got more money than the C's, you know what I mean? That's just the way it is. Some of these C's got more money than these B's though, so look out. All right, all right.

What's up, Lifers? And welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value, where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas and some debates about customer success every single day. Did I say customer success twice? We're going to say it some more. All right, boys, no guests.

I have a topic I want to bring to the group, to the council for consideration. This is my question. When we talk about customer success, we only ever refer to B2B, and we so rarely bring B2C into the conversation.

I've got a theory, but I want to hear what you guys have to say. Who wants to go first? I think it has something to do with two things. I think it has to do with money and behavior.

Always. Always. Money and behavior.

Money because, I mean, the B's got more money than the C's. That's just the way it is. I mean, some of these C's got more money than these B's though, you know what I mean? So look out.

But also, when you're dealing with C's, I think there's a lot more variant to their behavior. Whereas with B's, I think you can sort of put them in a hive a bit. Get what you're doing here.

Can I clarify? Can I clarify, JP? Is it because in customer success, we expect to create processes? Is that what you mean? It's just really hard to create processes for consumers versus businesses? Yes. I feel like business entities sort of have some ways that they behave that are maybe more predictable as a generalization than customers. But I mean, that's not entirely true.

Customers do have predictable behavior because that's what sales is all about. But I just mean like in combination with the money and the behaviors, it's like, all right, well, we're going to take it here. My overall conclusion is kind of similar, but different pieces of evidence.

I think you're right, JP. It's about that guap. It's the scuttle.

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That's the reason we're often talking about B2B. I also think that, say again? I think there's more of us that also work in B2B SaaS because what stems from that, right? If you the fact that B2B SaaS has higher contract values, the org structures are often more complex. Whereas with B2C models, it's usually, in my experience, smaller teams.

So you can have one person working with thousands of accounts. So it's smaller teams. And by nature, those interactions, the customer success interactions, they have to be very, very digital.

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So you're looking at simple, automated digital workflows, which is more of a niche specialty than when you're looking at big, larger scale, multi-threadable organizations where you can have complex onboarding processes. I want to challenge you there. And not in a bad way, because my theory, as I alluded to, is very similar to yours, Rob, but maybe from like, turn it 90 degrees, and this is the way I look at it.

B2C products, for the most part, by necessity, have had to lead with a PLG motion, PLG being product-led growth. And so that means it had to be scalable. So what you were saying around one CSM for a B2C company or a B2C product would have thousands of customers or users.

I mean, it's sort of interchangeable with the B2C. But I actually would argue that it's not less complex. It's actually more complex.

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In a lot of ways, I think the B2C CS motion, and I've actually never worked in it. So these are theories for me, is way more advanced than on the B2B side, in a lot of ways. I mean, obviously, I don't want to insult B2B.

Before I continue to bloviate, what do you think about that, Rob? I think you're bringing up the other side of the coin. So they're complex in different ways. I think B2C is complex in terms of the technical acumen needed, the reliance on data, the reliance on automation.

I mean, a B2C CSM has to think like a product manager, basically. There's a lot more emphasis on experimentation, too, I've found. Like A-B testing, different email cadences, and that kind of thing.

Meanwhile, B2B SaaS complexity comes from dealing with complex org structures, complex onboarding processes, complex QBRs, which you may never have in a B2C environment. Contracting. Yeah, contracts.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't have a legal team when I go out and buy whatever tool I'm looking to find. So there's not an intricate approval process. So it's a different complexity, but complex on both sides.

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But if we zoom back out and we think about what it is that customer success is truly responsible for, where it got started, it was protecting the revenue, plugging the holes in the bucket, so to speak, so that sales and customer acquisition could continue to fill the bucket without attrition overruling that acquisition motion. Then aren't the B2C folks, they're on a different level in terms of sophistication often than the B2B folks, because they've got to be able to do it essentially with one arm or both arms tied behind their back. Would you agree with that? Now, they're not necessarily responsible for expansion.

That probably goes back to product and building really solid calls to action and making sure that it's as frictionless as possible, blah, blah, blah. But that retention piece, I feel like the B2C guys, they got to have that down pat. Yeah.

I actually worked on a project with a client. It was super cool. We built a persuasive cancellation flow.

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Most of their customers were consumers. And consumers that were trying to cancel, they went through this cancellation flow. It's kind of like the Tim Robinson, like, do you really want to cancel? Are you really sure about that? As soon as you said it, I knew exactly what flow you were talking about.

I've been in that flow many times. You sure about that? Or it was actually persuasive. But JP, I want your thoughts on it.

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Before JP, you go. How about let's just complain for half a second about when they design the product in reverse. All their buttons, all the affirmative buttons are blue with white text, but when you want to cancel, they flip it.

And the blue with white text actually throws you back out of that flow and back into the product. Isn't that sort of f***ed up? No. I mean, I just don't think about the flipparoo.

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Despicable. Despicable. Yeah.

No, no. If I flip to myself as a consumer, the flows that have gotten me to stick around are the ones that are like, we'll give you a half off or another month free or whatever. So sometimes that gets me to stick around, but I guess there's this area too of now I'm thinking about ethics, right? Because when you brought that cancellation flow up, Rob, when you're doing renewals with people, you're like, the date is here.

You're constantly calling people about that date. Like customer success managers don't say, oh, the renewal date is coming up. Let me back into the bushes like Homer Simpson.

And hopefully they'll just forget. Sometimes they do. You know? So if you try to do dirty business, like in B2C, I can just imagine there's some people that just have that flow.

Try to make it as difficult as possible for you to cancel so that they at least get the revenue bump. And if they have to cancel some or refund some, I'm sure that they're playing that game. You know what I would challenge people to do is pull up your parent's iPhone, go to their subscription, find out how many things are just on auto-renewal that your parents aren't even aware of.

Now, no knock against parents listening to this interaction happened genuinely with me and my mom a few days ago. And she was like, I don't know what that is. How did I sign up for that? Meanwhile, she's been paying for it forever.

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You know? And then meanwhile, I think you guys know I've been pissed off at Duolingo, just seeing all the things that they throw at me. Can I complain about Duolingo for a second? I mean, let's put another prospective sponsor in the ground. No, no, no.

They can use us for some advice here. Can I read some of their- They can't use us. They can't use us, but you go ahead.

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These are real, real things that they've sent me in the last week. It started with... So I just bulls*** signed up to learn Italian. I don't have any interest in learning Italian.

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I was just clicking around, whatever. And then it starts telling me, like, I haven't used the app in a week. It's like, sorry to nag.

I promise to remind you. Got three minutes. I was like, okay, I get it.

That's fine. Then it escalates to, you okay, babe? You haven't done an Italian lesson in five days. I was like- You know what this reminds me of? Have you ever broken up with a girl that you went on maybe like four or five dates with? And she tries to slowly reel you back in like, hey, did you see that most recent episode of blah, blah, blah.

And like, you think it's a regular conversation. And then she's like, do you want to come over and watch the next one with me? And you're like, God, I thought we were just going to be friends. That's all I wanted.

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You know what the next one is? They're trying to trick you. Look, the next one, the next one is, hi, it's Duo. Are you avoiding me? I'm like, come on, who wrote this stuff? It's that, it's thirsty.

They're thirsty. Dillon, I think I'm just going back over the house. I don't think she has to do all that.

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Well, JP, that's all the time we have, folks. Wait, so here, I just want to say I totally forgot to introduce all of us at the top. So instead of hi, let's all say bye.

I got my man, JP here. Do you want to say bye? Deuces. Yeah, bleepers.

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I got my man, Rob here. Rob, do you want to say bye? Wait, are you avoiding me? I'm telling you to leave. That's what I'm saying.

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Peace. And I am your host, Dillon Young. See you, folks.

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LifetimeValueMedia.com. Find us on YouTube at Lifetime Value and find us on the socials at Lifetime Value Media. Until next time.