Saying the hard things: diversity in CS | Dannah Vaughan | TDSU Ep. 37

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It's interesting to me that 56% of customer success managers are women, yet we're paid less, we are promoted less, but it's just tough. Okay. All right.

What's up, lifers, and welcome to The Daily Standup, where we're giving you fresh ideas daily that relate to customer success. I got my man Rob here. Rob, do you want to say hi? What's going on, knickerbockers of customer success? You're going to keep trying this.

I got my man JP here. JP, do you want to say hi? What's up, bleepers? And we've got Dannah here. Dannah, do you want to say hi? What's up? Hi, everybody.

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And I'm your host, Dillon Young. Thank you guys for all being here. Dannah, do you want to introduce yourself? Yeah.

So I am Dannah Vaughan, Director of Customer Success at Apti, an awesome digital adoption platform. Prior to that, I've built and scaled customer success three times in my career. Besides that, I have a podcast of my own called Rebels of SaaS, where I bring positive disruption to the SaaS ecosystem.

And I'm in Eastern North Carolina, which happens to be sunny as hell today. So it's very good. Life is good, guys.

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Amen. So, Dannah, you know the script. We want to know what is on your mind when it comes to customer success.

Hit us. Oh, get ready. This is a big one, gentlemen.

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I want to talk about women and customer success, specifically around some of the things that Catalyst and Satanga, as well as women in tech from the UK have shared with us. It's interesting to me that something like 56% of customer success managers are women. Yet, according to Harvard Business Review, we're paid less.

We are promoted less. And it's just tough to find community, to find a place to be someone that's either female or that identifies as female inside of success, which I know it's weird because I'm like rapping about this with a bunch of dudes. Although, you guys are awesome dudes, right? So I know you three are the ones to chat with about it.

But if we scale out for just a minute, leadership in tech, only 8% above the director level are female. How do we change that? That's what's on my mind. How do we positively, in a great way that's not distracting, just help to build community, opportunity, and support for women and success? A big way to do that is to think through positive solutions inside of different companies like employee resource groups.

A lot of companies have them. Are they doing the right things within them, like offering really great resources for career development, community, networking opportunity, all that great stuff. And diversity-focused recruiting.

I think that's always a really cool thing to look at, specific to customer success, because we know that we can accomplish more from a customer experience and success lens by promoting diverse people, right? And then female mentors. And it goes back to the most important piece of what's on my mind, that's saying the hard stuff. I think as a customer success leader, and I've sat in executive chairs, the biggest thing is saying the things that are hard.

Like, hey, look, there actually is a problem. And I'm sure everyone on this phone call knows this is going to organically liaise into the next thing. That's kind of on my mind.

I think as customer success in general, you got to be able to say hard stuff and saying the hard shit to your customers and saying the hard shit to people around the board with you. And I think that's really where it's at. That's how you move the needle and create really great experiences for customers in general.

So I know that was a lot. You guys beat it up, but it's kind of what's on my mind. All I want to say is this feels, I respect all of it, and it's hard for me to add too much to it one way or the other.

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It's also a bit of a hot potato. So I'm going to give this to one of the guys to- Oh, that was well played, Dillon. I knew you would do that.

Well, I have no problem. So I got a panel coming up. All three of my panelists are women in customer success.

I feel like from the jump, I've been very fortunate to be surrounded by women in customer success. However, what you said that I think is important to key on is the director level. So I do know, of course, some women customer success leaders for sure.

I worked with some in my previous role. I got to work with one in particular. I'm thinking that she's awesome.

But yeah, it comes down to something where we can all do our part in terms of on one level, being conscious of who we put in the forefront, who we talk about. I think that there's something to be done at that level. But when it comes to that executive level, that's a different nut to crack.

So I'm going to give it over to my man, the nutcracker, Rob. I think he has something he could probably add on that. I wouldn't necessarily say it's something to add as much as more of a reflection and gratitude.

I mean, honestly, I'm very grateful that you brought up an important topic that, frankly, is hard and it's hard to bring up, right? Sort of the spirit of what you're saying is the ability to bring up hard conversations, I think, seem to do that quite well. Like JP said, I also have been fortunate to be surrounded by strong people from all sorts of different identities, different groups, marginalized groups that, you know, have really propelled me in my career. And I sort of reflect on my position in that.

Do you know the organization Women of Customer Success, by chance? So I think there's two. I think there's women of customer success and women in customer success. My friend, Lauren Salinitro, she started Women of Customer Success.

Regardless, my position here is more just to reflect on what is my experience of this, not to just to share my experience, right? I think having the ability to have open conversations about this stuff is the thing that will enable people like me to sort of be an effective participant in this conversation and this topic. And so what happened recently is, you know, I was talking with Lauren, and she's asked, well, we found ways for me to help contribute to the growth of her community. And I sort of recognize that my position there is really not to opine, not to tell, but honestly, it's frankly just to listen and to be aware.

And I think that's a hard thing for a lot of people who are on the other side of table to reflect on, right? But I've had this experience come up several times in my career, too. Like, for example, I was hiring a manager once, and my wife brought to my attention, she was like, you know, all those things that you said you're looking for, those kind of skew male, maybe you should revisit those criteria. I was so fortunate to have her in my corner to educate me, or like my two sisters, they helped me with that kind of thing as well.

So I'm curious to hear if you have any recommended practices and processes that you would recommend to guys like us that can help sort of keep a more of a level playing field and move things in a more balanced direction. But those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Yeah, just advocate.

That's the short answer. Just be, you know, in inside of your world, you know, do exactly what you're doing. Like JP, he's got the panel going.

That's the short answer is just, you know, be an advocate. And as long as you do that with truth and integrity, then you're doing everything that you can. And it's fantastic.

It's wonderful stuff. I love it. I love it.

That's our time, Dannah. Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing some sunshine with us up here in the Northeast.

We're getting nothing but rain. So we hope to have you back soon. Thank you so much for bringing the energy.

Thanks, Dillon. Appreciate it. Bye, everyone.

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You've been listening to The Daily Standup by Lifetime Value. Please note that the views expressed in these conversations are attributed only to those individuals on this recording and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of their respective employers. For all inquiries, please reach out via email to Dillon at LifetimeValueMedia.com. Find us on YouTube at Lifetime Value and find us on the socials at Lifetime Value Media.

Until next time. Hey, folks, it's Dillon here. Thank you for tuning in as always.

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