Shove it, imposter syndrome | Kinsey Wheelis

[Rob] (0:00 - 0:19)

Every new employee I've onboarded, there's a required conversation about imposter syndrome. You're gonna feel this, it's gonna suck, don't quit, you have resources available, have conversations about it. I know we're not paying you well, I know I'm not treating you well, but at least I'm willing to have vulnerable conversations.

[Dillon] (0:26 - 0:42)

All right, you guys ready? What's up lifers and welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man JP here adjusting his glasses.

JP, do you want to say hi?

[JP] (0:43 - 0:44)

Hello, my warmest fuzzies.

[Dillon] (0:45 - 0:48)

And we've got Rob here.

Rob, do you want to say hi?

[Rob] (0:49 - 0:49)

Hello lifers.

[Dillon] (0:50 - 0:53)

And we've got Kinsey here.

Kinsey, do you want to say hi?

[Kinsey] (0:54 - 0:55)

Yes. Hello everyone.

[Dillon] (0:56 - 1:01)

Fantastic. And I am your host. My name is Dillon Young.

Kinsey, would you please introduce yourself?

[Kinsey] (1:02 - 1:17)

Absolutely. My name is Kinsey Wheelis. I have been in customer success for about six years now, most previously leading a team of very successful customer success managers, only as successful as their customers, I will say.

[Dillon] (1:17 - 1:24)

So you know what we're doing here. We're simply asking, what is on your mind when it comes to customer success? So why don't you tell us what that is, Kinsey?

[Kinsey] (1:25 - 2:05)

Yeah. So I've been thinking about imposter syndrome a lot, not just for myself, especially because I've been hearing from a lot of CS professionals that whether they dealt with it in their past or not, they're dealing with it now. And so I want to talk a little bit about my views on imposter syndrome.

I think that when I was younger, it looked more like being afraid of not being good enough, right? Now that I am older in my professional experience, it looks more like, do I have something important to say? Do I know enough to do this job?

Does anybody care what is on my mind or what my ideas are, right? We do. Yeah.

Well, thank you.

[Dillon] (2:06 - 2:07)

That's why you're here.

[Kinsey] (2:09 - 5:23)

To be honest with you, my imposter syndrome was screaming at me over the past hour, but I am a survivor and I am here and still doing it. So that's the goal for everyone who watches this, right? But I think that part of the reason that I'm hearing this from CS professionals is because customer success is a little chaotic right now.

And maybe that's an understatement, right? If you go from one company to another, CS looks very different. They might at a high level all define it the same, but the way they're approaching it, the outcomes they want to see, the strategies they're putting into place look very different.

So I have literally heard from a few people, there's all these layoffs happening. What if I get laid off and I'm looking for a job and they want somebody who's done digital CS and I've never done that before. And so I think that is feeding.

I mean, is that not just feeding into our imposter syndrome, right? The disarray of CS I think is maybe making it worse. And so I have a few things I want to share for everyone watching, just a little advice.

I promise to keep it authentic. So the first thing is tell your imposter syndrome to sit down and shut up. Okay.

That's like the first step. The next step is don't allow your imposter syndrome to keep you from joining rooms of people who are more experienced, knowledgeable, who have different perspectives, all of those things, because those are the rooms that you're going to learn the most in. The next thing is don't let it keep you from taking risks, right?

I'm here right now, literally was freaking out until the minute that this, I'm actually still freaking out if we're being honest, because this is crazy. Everything is fine. Everything is going to be fine, but don't let it stop you from applying for that job, right?

Sharing your ideas on LinkedIn or wherever you share them, going and talking to your manager about a raise, like whatever it looks like, don't be afraid just because your imposter syndrome is that little voice in the back of your head saying, you can't do this. Again, sit down and shut up. We don't need to hear from you, right?

And then the last thing is specifically for customer success, I think that we have to be very adamant about not being complacent. So when I say that, I mean, regardless of what your role is right now and how your company handles customer success, be willing to take ownership over your learning and go and learn about the strategies that maybe your company isn't doing. Maybe you're doing a one-to-one more white glove approach right now.

Go and learn about digital CS. Take ownership over that. Maybe you don't carry revenue right now.

Go and figure out what does revenue look like in CS? What value does that provide? Take ownership over those things so that when you are having conversations with other people who are doing it that way, you don't feel so intimidated.

If you do that for yourself, imposter syndrome just doesn't get a seat at the table. Those are the key takeaways I'd like to encourage everybody to do. And I would also love to hear what you all think about imposter syndrome now that I've talked for three minutes straight.

[Dillon] (5:24 - 5:25)

Yeah. Was it only three?

[Kinsey] (5:25 - 5:26)

Maybe four.

[Dillon] (5:26 - 5:28)

I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

[Kinsey] (5:28 - 5:28)

I could have done more.

[Dillon] (5:29 - 6:55)

What's up, guys? It's Dillon here, and you know why I'm here. Hat in hand.

I got a favor to ask of you. If you like what we're doing, give us a like on whatever platform that you find us on. And if you want to know when we're dropping new stuff, give us a follow.

Give us a subscribe. And maybe best of all, if you want to give us some feedback, drop a comment and let us know what you like, what you don't like, or how we can get better. We want to make sure we're giving the best content we can to you and others within the community.

Thanks so much, guys. I'll definitely want to give JP or Rob, whoever is more inclined to speak on this. I want to say one thing first.

You threw a lot out there, Kinsey, but the thing that I resonate with is this phrase that I think applies to a lot of what you said, which is everything you want is on the other side of comfortable, meaning there is no growth, there is no progress unless you get uncomfortable. When you think about it, it's kind of just obvious. It's a duh sort of statement, right?

If you already achieved it, then yeah, of course you're comfortable. It's only the stuff that you don't know how to get to or is really hard is going to make you uncomfortable. Another thing I'll say is that I personally struggle a ton with anxiety, and I think imposter syndrome feeds a lot off of anxiety.

[Kinsey] (6:55 - 6:55)

Absolutely.

[Dillon] (6:56 - 7:27)

What I will say is what's the worst that can happen? What you said about getting in the room with people or asking certain questions that you're afraid to get rejected, what's the worst that can happen? They can say no.

The flip side of that is if you go into a room and people are less than accommodating, less than supportive, that is not your problem. That is that person's problem. That is not your imposter syndrome.

That is that person being a ... All right? But that's what I wanted to say.

JP, you go ahead.

[JP] (7:28 - 8:59)

I'm just going to say two things. One of them is that sometimes people think that they have one thing and then they go to the doctor and they're like, no, you don't have that. You have something else.

I will call out that you have to be careful that it's actually imposter syndrome and not just you don't quite know, or we don't want to necessarily ... People say think until you make it, but that only works in certain instances. You're flying a plane, I don't want you to fake it until you make it.

That's just not a good thing. To flip that and think about things in more of the positive sense in terms of the mindset you want to have. If you have a learning mindset, it provides you with the requisite humility for you to be able to walk through these situations.

I think that's the other thing too, is that sometimes you don't want your ... People can mistake humility being humble for imposter syndrome as well. You can go both ways.

I think what's important is really coming in with a learning mindset, but then also not being shy about the fact that you don't know. That's the only place where imposter syndrome wins, because there's some element of deception or hiding. But if you're not trying to hide that, for example, with LinkedIn, if you're going to post on LinkedIn, it's one thing to post on LinkedIn, hey, I'm new in customer success and I'm learning.

It's another thing to just post tips and tricks for a job you've never had. Your imposter syndrome in one of them is very warranted because you are an imposter.

[Rob] (8:59 - 9:29)

I was going to say exactly that. When I first experienced this most intensely, and I'm talking most intensely, I was at this job 2016. I had just started.

I went through 10 months of feeling like I was going to throw up going into calls, sleepless nights, and wanting to quit every single day. My quick and dirty history on this was first I experienced it extremely intensely for the better part of a year. Then in doing in that whole process, and by the way, I'm lucky to be married to a psychologist.

It's pro tip.

[JP] (9:30 - 9:31)

Weird flex. Weird flex.

[Rob] (9:31 - 10:12)

So that was like phase one for me. But then phase two, I started trying to study ways to overcome it. Similar to what you said, Kinsey, I said a similar thing.

I was like, tell it to shut up. This is going to sound crazy. I even gave it a voice.

I started using this, and it turns out there's actual psychological research behind this of making fun of a version of yourself, being like, I'm so scared. I can't do it. I can't learn this stuff.

I'm overwhelmed. So that was phase two. That was actually not healthy though.

Mocking self-talk. Yeah, I was going to say that can't possibly be good for you. It's something I learned from my old business partner.

He used to do that to himself all the time.

[Dillon] (10:12 - 10:14)

Shut up, you piece of s---. You can do it.

[Rob] (10:15 - 10:41)

It's really weird. So phase three was actually finally where I personally figured it out. So for me, the answer was actually a little different than yours, Kinsey, but we've all got our own stories here.

For me, that was when I started studying it. I actually went back to my old psychology textbooks, and I studied and I came across something called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which explains this really well. Pete, you're nodding like you know that.

Get out of here.

[JP] (10:41 - 10:47)

This is pop psychology that Rob is wishing off of. LinkedIn, you can find it on LinkedIn all the time. Go ahead, Rob.

[Rob] (10:47 - 11:43)

So when I started studying it scientifically, it actually gave me this JPU to appreciate. It was almost like this sort of Buddhist view, in a way, my interpretation of it, of myself.

I started seeing myself from the third person and being like, wow, look at that. Rob's really overwhelmed by this thing that he's assigning so much importance to, and it sort of minimized the problem. From there, that was kind of when I had a breakthrough.

Ever since then, every new employee I've onboarded, every company I've been at, their first week, there's a required conversation about imposter syndrome. So we're just like, let's come at this. From day one, we're going to acknowledge the fact you're going to feel this.

It's going to suck. Don't quit. You have resources available.

Have conversations about it. This was his retention strategy. I know we're not paying you well.

I know I'm not treating you well, but at least I'm willing to have vulnerable conversations.

[Kinsey] (11:44 - 11:47)

Yeah, there you go. That's it. That's the point.

[JP] (11:47 - 11:49)

Hey, required conversation. Don't quit.

[Kinsey] (11:50 - 12:26)

Yeah. I know we're just about out of time. I just want to touch on two things super fast.

So the growth piece of it that you mentioned, Dillon, super important, right? Getting in those rooms with people, you grow. That's where you grow the most.

And also having conversations that you may not be comfortable with or with people who differ, whose ideas differ from you. You learn a lot there. And then JP, on what you said, I think imposter syndrome only has power over you if you let it.

And so how you equip yourself and actually admit, hey, I don't know this, but I'm here to learn. That's how you take the power back from imposter syndrome.

[Dillon] (12:27 - 12:42)

So Kinsey, I love the topic. I love that you even wrapped it up for us at the end. That's usually my job and I don't particularly enjoy it.

So thank you for doing it. But that's our time. We do have to get going.

We would love to have you back in the future. But for now, we've got to say goodbye.

[Kinsey] (12:42 - 12:44)

Absolutely. Y'all have a great day. Bye, everyone.

[Voiceover] (12:49 - 13:19)

You've been listening to The Daily Standup by Lifetime Value. Please note that the views expressed in these conversations are attributed only to those individuals on this recording and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of their respective employers. For all inquiries, please reach out via email to Dillon at lifetimevaluemedia.com.

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