Three easy payments | Ep. 141

[Dillon] (0:00 - 0:48)

Being a CSM can sometimes feel like a thankless job, but trust me, you can be the MVP of your... This feels like a... Trust me, you can be the MVP of your organization.

I've tried a few strategies that helped me get there, and I want to share some of those secrets with you. This feels like a OxiClean commercial. Let's do it.

What's up, Lifers? And welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value, where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I have a bemused JP with us.

JP, do you want to say hi?

[JP] (0:48 - 0:49)

How are you doing, folks?

[Dillon] (0:53 - 0:56)

And we've got Rob with us. Rob, do you want to say hi?

[Rob] (0:57 - 0:58)

What's up, Grifters?

[Dillon] (1:02 - 1:22)

And I am your host. My name is Dillon Young. It's just the three of us, but guys, I do have a topic for you.

We came into this recording session without much to say, and so I ended up where I always do. To be honest, guys, I am never on Reddit except for when we're talking to one another.

[Rob] (1:30 - 1:40)

I'm a recent Reddit user thanks to you, and they gave me a badge for logging in several days in a row. I was like, you're gamifying my awful behaviors.

[Dillon] (1:40 - 1:44)

Thanks. I got an email. Do you guys know what Jimmy John's is?

Do you have Jimmy John's where you are?

[JP] (1:44 - 1:45)

Oh, I know what that is.

[Dillon] (1:45 - 2:02)

For sure. Going down the street. So I just got an email before we got on this call.

They have a new badge available for their jalapeno cheddar whatever the hell. So I could earn a badge for eating ultra-processed deli meat with some jalapeno cheddar. Jimmy John's University.

[Rob] (2:04 - 2:10)

You should get that badge. You should get it on a diploma. Print it.

Put it behind you.

[JP] (2:10 - 2:14)

Oh, yeah. Yeah, get a badge. Certificate to show.

[Dillon] (2:15 - 2:22)

Yeah, we can do an entire mosaic wall of ridiculous badges, including- Get another certification.

[JP] (2:22 - 2:22)

Why not?

[Dillon] (2:24 - 2:59)

Anyway, so I was on Reddit, gentlemen, and I saw this really interesting headline. And transparently, I have not read any more of it, but we're going to read this. We're going to chat about it.

So this comes from sufficient ruin 1377. In my opinion, the CSM is the MVP of any organization, even if it doesn't feel that way. JP, tell me how you feel.

Before I go any further, tell me how you feel.

[JP] (3:00 - 3:06)

There could be more depth to this, but I think that's just my pump your brakes reaction.

[Dillon] (3:07 - 3:09)

Then you're going to love what comes next.

[JP] (3:09 - 3:10)

Okay, let's hear it.

[Dillon] (3:11 - 3:33)

Being a CSM can sometimes feel like a thankless job, but trust me, you can be the MVP of your- This feels like a- Trust me, you can be the MVP of your organization. I've tried a few strategies that helped me get there, and I want to share some of those secrets with you. This feels like a OxyClean commercial, doesn't it?

[JP] (3:33 - 3:44)

Yeah, and what does it mean to be the MVP of your organization, if that's what you're trying to get out to- What's the most valuable player? I'm saying, what standard, man? What standard do you have?

[Dillon] (3:44 - 4:17)

Well, it certainly doesn't mean indispensable, because they're all getting fired. But look, here's number one of the few strategies, earn sales' respect. Do you want sales to value what you bring to the table?

Send them useful customer feedback. If customers mention competitors or certain pain points, tell sales to add that to their battle cards or sales decks. So talk to your teammates.

[JP] (4:17 - 4:42)

It's not that that is bad advice, per se. It's just that, why are they going to listen to you? I think there's something deeper.

That's what I'm getting at. Not that people say, yeah, you should do this. And then my question in the back is, why?

What have you done to, you say, earn their respect, right?

[Rob] (4:43 - 4:49)

That's not a little bit- I don't think that's the right way to frame it, either. Earning their respect.

[Dillon] (4:50 - 4:55)

It creates a power dynamic right from the jump where you're lesser.

[Rob] (4:56 - 5:21)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, where you're lesser. And we shouldn't just subscribe to that power dynamic.

This whole notion that there is respect to be earned, and then specifically that we have to do the work to earn that respect, is just based on this assumption that we're already playing second fiddle. We're already the redheaded stepchild of the organization. And is that true in many organizations?

Sure, but you got to act the part of being an executive at the table in order to earn that seat.

[JP] (5:22 - 5:48)

And I do just want to- I do think that when I think about earning respect, I think about more like earning respect as co-workers, as teammates. Not because I'm in CS and you're in sales. And so somehow for me, it's more about- I want people to know that I'm dependable, that I'm reliable, those kind of things.

That's why I believe if I'm new, I want to earn that with people especially.

[Dillon] (5:49 - 6:21)

Rob, I forget what the example is that you've given in the past where people give advice like this and you're like, oh yeah, just do your job, you mean? Like you just communicate and we're all on the same team. We're thinking about how to lift each other up at all times.

That's what this feels like to me. It just feels like don't be the, that's not my job person. Don't live in a silo.

It feels elementary and a little bit dated. All right, here's number two.

[Rob] (6:21 - 6:45)

Here's number two. I will say, can I say one thing on number one? It's a sneaky, sneaky way that I did this.

Got the same outcome, but I didn't have to earn anyone's respect. I planted someone from my team as a sales engineer. And then next thing you know, all the sales scripting started getting updated to be like very CS friendly.

I'll put it that way.

[JP] (6:47 - 6:49)

So you may be the next thing.

[Dillon] (6:51 - 7:12)

Number two, they're using the word in the definition, which is a pet peeve of mine. Become an MVP for product teams. Create value by being the bridge between the customer and the product team.

When you hop into sales calls, listen actively to what the customers are saying. Then pass that feedback on to the product team. The more insights you share about customer needs and experiences, the more you'll become indispensable.

[JP] (7:16 - 7:26)

Let's call out that part of, I'm going to speak for myself, that part of the way that I'm viewing this is because this sounds like very obvious stuff.

[Dillon] (7:26 - 7:27)

Elementary, yeah.

[JP] (7:27 - 7:46)

Right, exactly. Like you said, elementary. So someone who is not, as in the know, this could be really valuable advice for them.

So I do want to call that out. However, I do think that there is a better way to sometimes position this advice.

[Dillon] (7:46 - 10:04)

But I would venture to guess in a world where a customer success degree and major were at a college, this would be on the first day of the first class level of elementary. Anyway, I would argue, can I throw a point in here? Let's do it.

Create value by being the bridge between the customer and the product team. Listen actively to what the customers are saying. Then pass that feedback on to the product team.

So when you hop into sales calls, listen actively to what the customers are saying. Then pass that feedback on to the product team. I think that's just straight up wrong.

That's sales's job. That's not your job. And I think there's a nuance there.

It is customer success's job to take feedback from existing customers, which often gets put into a different bucket with a different weight than the feedback sales people are getting. And that's an important distinction that a product team should understand, because one is prospects we have not yet secured that don't see something in our system they'd like to see versus people who already give us money to use our system but would like more from it. They're very different.

One has signed a contract. One has not. That wasn't even actually my original point.

My point is to say, I think this misses the mark in terms of how you can best serve product. And for me, it's not just feedback. It's also how do you get your customers to adopt the product in the way product wants them to.

Now, that's assuming that they've designed the product such that it actually works and solves the customer's problem and that the product team is being measured and their performance is in some way measured by whether the customer is using the product in that way. That's interesting. That's a good point.

Because that makes product look good. Whereas you can make an argument that if you just keep giving them feedback, that just gives them more work and it makes it look like their product is incomplete. It stinks.

We know that's not true. But you should be feeding them on the other side, making them look good with the stuff they already built.

[Rob] (10:05 - 10:51)

Yeah. Imagine you're at a company and you release a mobile app. One way to earn the quote unquote respect of the product team would be to bring it up at every pass with your clients and make sure it gets well adopted.

And then your product team will be endlessly appreciative of your efforts to support them. I do think it's interesting here. You guys remember that five personas of CS?

Hot new persona just dropped. The five were like the administrative CS function, the reactive support function, the purely health focus, the commercial type CS. And then the dispatcher was number five, which I thought was interesting that came up.

Or the quarterback, whatever you want to call it. It seems like this person is very much like trying to adopt that number five mindset.

[Dillon] (10:51 - 11:28)

And to your point, yeah, I want you to finish, but it's really interesting that you say that perfect segue. Yeah, I'm saying trying, but back to you. Because number three is product knowledge is key.

You can't do the above effectively without a deep knowledge of the products you support. Get those certifications, learn everything you can and stay curious. Use tools like ChatGPT or Perplexity to quickly learn and stay updated on your products, trends and industry changes.

Forget being an MVP. This is great for your career and upward mobility. Did ChatGPT write this?

[JP] (11:28 - 11:32)

I was about to say. Yeah. Oh.

[Dillon] (11:35 - 12:21)

Okay. So what's funny is where I have been dictated that my job description was purely quarterback. I didn't log into my system once because I had a TAM that would do that for me.

I had product folks that would do that for me. I had access to tracking tools like Pendo and stuff like that. So I could see what they were doing within the system.

But my ability to know how each button worked was less important than my ability to know who the stakeholders were at my customer and what their roadmap for the next 6, 12, 18 months look like. Because I know what my product does. I just don't know how it does it.

[JP] (12:21 - 13:09)

And I think that, yeah, it depends on where you are. In some places, you do have to have a certain amount of product knowledge. But ultimately, product knowledge, that expertise, while it is something I think to aspire toward, that's what really the technical folks are supposed to be there.

That is their function. I think that that's what you don't want to lose as a CSM is know your role a bit. You can learn that.

That's good to learn. But it's not necessarily a key part of your role in being a good CSM. You're not usually measured on your product knowledge.

They could care less. They're like, what's your renewals and expansions look like?

[Dillon] (13:10 - 13:17)

And that level of knowledge can help. But I think that you really quickly hit a diminishing rate of return.

[JP] (13:17 - 13:54)

Exactly. Then go switch to work for a different team then. If you get that much product knowledge and you're sucking at CSM because you clearly think that you're supposed to be an MVP by doing all these whatever things, you may be better suited over there.

And I do think that we are going to see, I think CS is like this place where people come in. It's where they come in, the border control. So they come in.

They don't quite know where they want to get. They're just like, oh, I want to be here. And you go through.

But in the end, you're not supposed to be in CS. And you eventually find your way out to where you're supposed to be.

[Rob] (13:55 - 14:42)

Well, I'll tell you, actually. So there's something I like about that. And there's something I don't like.

The thing I like about product knowledge is a lot of times you're just doing yourself a favor because you're not putting the key to your success in someone else's pocket. And that's good to be able to just, if you can get off the call and have trouble shot something yourself, then that's great. But what I don't like is most of the time, people don't think about how much product knowledge dies with you when you leave a company.

That is not, I don't see resumes where, oh, I know the ins and outs of the admin, like the admin screen on this product that I worked for. What companies care about on your resume is like your internal numbers, your internal metrics. Your retention rate, for example.

Not whether you know how to, you know.

[Dillon] (14:42 - 14:43)

As few clicks as possible.

[Rob] (14:43 - 14:46)

Light mode on some random app that they don't care about.

[Dillon] (14:46 - 15:32)

Yeah. What's interesting though, and here's where we'll wrap up, is Rob, you said you're doing yourself a favor if you can, I'm paraphrasing, you basically do all the jobs. You don't need anybody else to solve an issue.

And yes, that's technically true. But I think that is a, toxic isn't the right word, but I think it is counterproductive in allowing everybody to do their best work. And it's why I talk a lot about the flywheel.

Sure, I could go and collect invoices because I'm already on the phone with my customer. But does that take the spot of another agenda item that is going to provide way more value than collecting one bill? Because it's going to allow me to expand the customer account by 50%.

[JP] (15:34 - 15:47)

Rob, you turned your brisket into bologna. You cut a big old piece off and it was like. Anyway.

That's not what I meant at all.

[Rob] (15:48 - 15:52)

Different meats, man. I'm talking pork versus beef.

[Dillon] (15:54 - 15:55)

Bologna Bob.

[JP] (15:57 - 15:58)

That's our time.

[Dillon] (15:58 - 16:04)

Thanks for going down the Reddit wormhole with me again. We'll catch you next time. Peace.

Later.

[Voiceover] (16:34 - 16:39)

And find us on the socials at lifetime value media. Until next time.